A State’s Recipe for Nuclear Success

Mary Carpenter This is Fissionary, a show exploring how nuclear powers your world. I'm Mary Carpenter.  

Jordan Houghton And I'm Jordan Houghton. Let's jump in.  Welcome back to Fissionary! Hey, Mary!  

Mary Carpenter Hey Jordan, how's it going?  

Jordan Houghton It's going really well, I'm so excited for today's guest. She's Senator Sue Rezin from my home state of Illinois and she's the co-chair of the Task Force on Energy Supply and has spent years fighting to preserve and expand nuclear energy in Illinois and throughout the country. This is an amazing convo, it's our first time talking to an elected representative, and it's so interesting to hear her talk about how she has to balance different constituencies in the work that she does.  

Mary Carpenter Yeah, I can't believe it's taken us so long to get a legislator on the show, but it was so interesting talking to the Senator. And she's also the outgoing chair of the board of the National Foundation for Women Legislators. So, it was really interesting to not only talk to someone who has such an interesting perspective on nuclear, who's fighting so hard for nuclear in a state where there's a partial moratorium, but also a woman. So, it was really cool.  

Jordan Houghton Senator Sue Rezin has represented Illinois's 38th Legislative District since 2010 and currently serves as deputy minority leader of the Senate Republican Caucus. She is the co-chair of the Task Force on Energy Supply and a member of several key Senate committees, including Energy and Public Utilities. Nationally, she is the outgoing chair of the board of the National Foundation for Women Legislators and is a current board member. Thanks so much, Senator, for joining us, we're really excited to have you here today.  

Senator Sue Rezin Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to be on your show.  

Jordan Houghton You've been in the Illinois Senate since 2010, now serve as a Deputy Minority Leader. I'd love for you to start by telling us what first drew you to public service, and if there's any accomplishments you're especially proud of from your time in office.  

Senator Sue Rezin Yeah, you know, so I started locally, I served on numerous boards locally, and I learned what good public policy looks like. I went through this year-long program, and towards the end of the program, I was able to job shadow a Senator on the Senate floor. And at the time, I thought I was going to run for the local county board. I was sitting on the Senate floor with my Senator on a day where they were voting on bills—it's called third readings where you're listening to debate—and voting on bills all day long. And for me, it was an incredibly transformative day because I was listening to all of the bills being debated and I thought, you know what, I understand these issues because I have currently, or I'm currently serving at the local level in various capacities, so instead of running for county board, I decided to run for State Rep, ended up getting the appointment and was appointed to the Senate. There are so many great high points while serving in the Senate. We have many complex problems that needed to be solved at the state level, and instead of deciding not to participate in that process, I made a conscious decision to be part of the decision makers when I could be and have a seat at the table and try to pass legislation that is not only good for the constituents in my district, but for all of the stakeholders and constituents in the great state of Illinois.  

Mary Carpenter So, I know one of the big issues for all of us, and I know one that you're working on, is energy. So, Illinois has more nuclear power plants than any other state, yet there's still a partial moratorium on building new ones. You've been working to change that. So, what do people need to understand about this moratorium and why your work now matters?  

Senator Sue Rezin Well, thank you. First of all, this podcast isn't long enough to answer your question, but let me try! We knew that several years ago that we had a problem in the state of Illinois with protecting, trying to reduce our carbon footprint, but also protecting the large nuclear power plants that we currently have in the State of Illinois because they were not recognized and were not able to participate in the renewable energy market. They were then competing against natural gas and coal, which are high emitters of carbon but they're cheaper cost of power, which is creating a problem for the nuclear power plants. So, we ended up working very hard to pass a piece of legislation several years ago called CEJA to protect the nuclear power plants and also allow them to compete against, in the energy market in Illinois, with wind and solar. So, that was the first very positive step for the state of Illinois. A couple of years afterwards, as we've all seen, the economy is changing with the use of AI. All technology evolves around AI. Because of AI, we have a huge demand now for data centers to house the information. Data centers require two things. They require significant amount of power currently, not only in the state of Illinois, but this issue of demand for power in the past four years, all of a sudden has changed the conversation around energy, not only in the State of Illinois, but across the country. Everybody's asking in all states, what can we do to stay up—to make sure we have enough energy or power to stay up with the demand. There is a graph that shows the demand for power for data centers will double in a couple of years. So, that tells us that we need to preserve our power. All of a sudden, and we've went from many states that before never would have considered nuclear, all of a sudden is looking to nuclear as part of their ability to solve the energy demand that they're seeing in their state. Illinois is no different. We have data centers, especially in my district, I have developers all over my district looking to come in. And before, I would say five or six years ago, I would have companies come into my district and they would ask for 50 to 100, maybe 200 megawatts to—that they would need for their particular development, not because of the developers that are looking in the area on behalf of companies that are building out data centers. Their requests for power are up to a thousand megawatts of power for a project. Think about that. A thousand megawatts is what one half of a nuclear power plant produces. I mean, it's astounding. So, we're seeing that demand in Illinois. We're seeing the demand like that throughout the entire country. We are very fortunate in Illinois to have six nuclear power plants. So, we understand nuclear in the state of Illinois. However, the problem that we currently have is we have a moratorium that was passed 30 years ago, like many states passed a moratorium 30 years ago to prohibit building out large capacity or large scale nuclear. It's time to lift that archaic legislation passed 30 years ago and to allow and send a message to investors, who potentially are looking at nuclear as a source for these hyperscalers, to know that we can look at and consider the state of Illinois. So, I've been trying to pass and lift the moratorium for the past year in Illinois. It did not get called this year in the huge energy discussion. I'm hoping that we'll see it again coming up during veto session.  

Mary Carpenter We appreciate all the work you're doing to lift that moratorium. What kind of support are you getting from your colleagues and your constituents to repeal the moratorium? 

Senator Sue Rezin Well, in my district, we understand nuclear. I talk about this all of the time. Everybody, all of my neighbors, they work in the nuclear power plants. We understand nuclear, we accept it, and we want to encourage investment in nuclear. Build it in our backyard. We will welcome that kind of investment with open arms. My colleagues in Springfield are more receptive to accepting nuclear now than they were just a couple of years ago. They see this huge train coming down the track with a demand for power and they understand now that we need some sort of answer. Before—several years ago, I worked for two years to pass the moratorium on building nuclear. We got a partial lift on being able to build nuclear, so we can build up to 300 megawatts. But when we passed the bill to partially lift the moratorium to allow for SMRs to be built, this was a very huge education process for my colleagues across the aisle, especially in the Senate, and then again in the House—to educate my colleagues as to why nuclear is safe and how protections—how there are protections in place. Nuclear is the most regulated industry of all the industries out there in the energy space. There's high regulations and there should be, there's high safety measures and there should be, and it was just a matter of educating my colleagues. I think that they understand and feel better about nuclear and may be more open and receptive to my bill to completely lift the moratorium on building large-scale nuclear this fall.  

Jordan Houghton I want to go back to something you mentioned when you were talking about the need to keep plants online. You've helped save a couple of nuclear plants from closure, and you said that in one case, your community was facing the potential for 20 percent unemployment, which is a huge number. I just want to have you go into that a little bit more. What did you learn about how closely energy policy is tied to economic security in community?  

Senator Sue Rezin Well, certainly the economics is incredibly important in being that I live here, and I see it firsthand. It would—if we did not get a CEJA pass several years ago, which by the way, CEJA was the largest, most comprehensive energy bill, changing energy policy in the state of Illinois that almost did not happen. We were within hours of being not able to pass the bill, which meant the nuclear power plants, which at the time were, in my opinion, stranded assets, could have potentially closed. Many people say don't—you know, that's not going to happen. I believe because of many discussions I’ve had and many people I spoke with over the course of two years, I took that threat very seriously. So, what would that mean? We did a report through Northern University I believe that looked at our workforce here in Morris, Illinois in the Grundy County area if one nuclear power plant would close—that's Dresden, Dresden nuclear power plant is in my backyard. What would that do to the local economy and to our unemployment? And the report came back saying if Dresden closed, our unemployment would go up 20 percent—to 20 percent. Now that was a huge eye-opener for me. We've been very blessed by having very good-paying jobs. The people who work at the plant—you need to have a very high skill set to work in these plants, rightfully so, and I'm thankful for everyone who works there. But they also are paid well, let's be honest here. And they've afforded many people, many of my colleagues, my community, to live, you know, well in the area. But when you're closing a nuclear power plant, it devastates communities. There's no question. These nuclear power plants have between 900 to 1,000 permanent jobs, but when they have outages—which each plant has an outage usually every year for several weeks—you'll have up to 2,000 skilled workers working in the plant to update the plant. So, it's a huge economic driver, think hotels, think restaurants, think gas stations, think all of the people that are working as subcontractors during the outages. Huge economic driver. But more importantly, and I tell many companies that are coming into this area, we have a skilled workforce in these plants, and we can build with certainty that it's built correctly.  

Mary Carpenter What would it take in your opinion to activate this workforce to build all the nuclear that we're going to need?  

Senator Sue Rezin Lots of education, engaging people to make sure that we all are on the same page. We work with the schools to make sure that we are creating this pipeline of workforce earlier than most people. We start currently through the GEDC in collaboration with the Grundy Economic Development. We have a paid project-based high school internship program that currently is going on this summer, we have 40 paid project-based internships for high schoolers going on in the area, not necessarily in the nuclear power plants, but in many plants that are similar, to start teaching young adults soft skills expectations. From there, they can, should they choose, go to the local community college. I worked with Joliet Junior College to create the Engineering and Operating Technician program, which is very, very popular, it's very hard to get into, and there's a 100 percent hire rate once you graduate in two years. And the curriculum was created between the nuclear power company and the community college. At the time, it was Exelon; they say, we need these courses. The community colleges said, let us they work together, put an incredible program together that to this day is very well known across the country, and proud of that. So, we take workforce very seriously. We are now looking at and working with somebody who reached out to me to see if we can start this education for our workforce even earlier than high school. There are some examples that have been done in Tennessee that we're looking at. So, we can always improve, but I'm very proud of our workforce and what we have to offer to any company in the area.  

Jordan Houghton I love this so much. We talk about this a lot, the need for developing the next generation workforce as we scale up nuclear. What's the reception like from the students? Are they excited to get involved in these career tracks? What do you hear?  

Senator Sue Rezin Absolutely, they're very excited because oftentimes, their only experience of working at the plants. I also represent a chemical corridor, but it's the energy corridor and the chemical corridor. Their only experience is twofold. One is, they may have a parent or a grandparent or a relative that works in the plants, so they're hearing back and forth and they see that their relative has a very good paying job, that they like their job, and that they're being trained very well to work in the plants.  

Mary Carpenter I want to go back to something you mentioned earlier about your transmission lines. Illinois has an underappreciated grid and transmission network that allows you to move large amounts of power across regions. Can you help paint a picture of what that infrastructure looks like and why it gives your state a competitive advantage?  

Senator Sue Rezin Most people see the power lines as something that they do not want in their backyard, right? They have a negative perception. It's very hard to site transmission lines, but we have them here in the state of Illinois, it's a huge asset. Companies look at their ability to tie into the transmission in the area, and then that's why all of the companies are here. In the future, though, it is very hard. I understand people want wind and solar as well, I understand that, but in order to move the power from wind and solar, you have to oftentimes build out the transmission component. It's very difficult. Most people do not want them in their backyard, and I represent an agricultural district with some of the best farmland in the world here. People do not want transmission lines. They do not want the wind and/or the solar going through their farms. So, it's a difficult conversation to have. I understand that. But being that we already have the transmission here, it's easy and we have the easements on both sides to be able to expand from—on either side of the transmission should we need to. So, that is huge. You don't have to go to the farmers and try to negotiate with the farmers to buy their land or if they're not receptive, then you would have to use a potentially eminent domain to take their land which is not popular, and we don't support it, so for us, it's the best currently we're in a great situation by having the current transmission line here in Illinois.  

Jordan Houghton You're balancing a lot of different audiences there, Senator, you've got your work cut out for you! 

Senator Sue Rezin Yes, these are controversial issues though. I mean, to have a new transmission line go through your community, I would have a town hall with 500 people there against the project. People have very, very strong opinions about it. So, the fact that we do not have to go through the siting for transmission because we already have the lines built here, it's a huge asset for my area, for the state of Illinois, and for the country.  

Jordan Houghton So, you describe this moment as a gold rush for energy. Between AI, hyperscalers, and industrial manufacturing, the scale of power demand is changing fast. What are you hearing from companies and how are your fellow policymakers responding?  

Senator Sue Rezin Well, so my colleagues across the aisle are asking the same questions that I'm asking. I do feel, and we know that Illinois is in a better situation since we have the largest nuclear fleet in the country, which is a huge asset, but many of my colleagues that I have discussions with who participate in the energy committee are asking and seeing the need for demand go up exponentially. They're asking about nuclear. They are asking, how can we—how do we begin to encourage or incent nuclear for businesses who are looking to invest in data centers or build out data centers in my state? And so, again, five years ago, we never had these discussions. I felt like I was a person on my own island talking about nuclear, which I have been for the past 15 years, the importance of nuclear, and most people did not—nuclear wasn't as popular as it is now, but, at the end of the day, we as legislators have to make sure that our energy portfolio is resilient, reliable while we reduce our carbon footprint and make sure it's the lowest cost as possible. And if those are your four pillars to your energy policy, which they are for me, then nuclear is the only energy source that fits all four.  

Jordan Houghton Up on that. You're in a district where nuclear is prevalent, the community works in the plants, and we see the industry sees the highest approval ratings for nuclear in communities where there's already nuclear because they understand it, they work with it. When you're working with your colleagues from different parts of the state where there isn't as much nuclear, have you had to do a lot of convincing? And what are the objections you've heard and had to overcome?  

Senator Sue Rezin There's no question. It's an education issue. And I'm happy and have spent countless hours with my colleagues sitting down with them to explain the importance of nuclear and why it's safe. But really, I'll be honest with you, what completely changes their perception is when they are invited and take the time to tour a nuclear power plant. My colleagues usually do a 180. Because they have a perception in their mind, but once they come out to the plant and see the security built around the plant as well as in the plant, see the high level of workforce that we have to see all of the safeguards and security that are in place for the plant, they come away with a different perception of nuclear. So, we try and encourage and often have tours through the plants, and I would say that that single-handedly changes the majority of the legislators' opinions about nuclear for the better.  

Mary Carpenter That's great. I'm glad you're giving people an opportunity to actually see it with their own eyes. It's really important. So, you've also pointed to long term power purchase agreements from companies like Microsoft as a turning point. How is nuclear uniquely positioned to meet this kind of demand, and what does this trend mean for the future of financing and public private energy partnerships?  

Senator Sue Rezin Public-private energy partnerships are a win for Illinois. They're a win every state, and we're seeing public-private partnerships happen across the country. There was a large public power purchase agreement done on the East Coast with a tech company who entered into one of these large power agreements for 20 years. We have not seen these kind of power agreements by a company. However, I would say—so, we've had several now across the country. I do know that many of the, I will just say tech companies are looking to see what nuclear power plants they could potentially bring online, if they could enter into power purchase agreements—that's the trend that we're seeing as well. But when these companies invest in clean, reliable power sources like nuclear, it strengthens our grid, it drives private capital into energy infrastructure, and it helps secure long-term stability. So, nuclear power is critical to meeting demands without emissions.  

Jordan Houghton So, you've raised concerns about the US falling behind countries like China and Russia in nuclear development. Why is it important for the US to lead globally? And what role do states like Illinois play in making that happen?  

Senator Sue Rezin Well, it's always important to lead globally for energy, because as we are seeing a huge push to reshore manufacturing, we have to show that we have the capacity and the baseload and the reliability to be able to power all of the manufacturing that we will bring back here. It's incredibly important. It's important that we do not rely, especially on adversarial or hostile countries, for our energy or for parts that are needed for our supply chain to build out the energy because then we would depend on them for the supply chain or the cost. And also, we want to make sure we're not competing with them or falling behind in energy when we're trying to compete globally for many of the manufacturers that are looking to reinvest in our country or they're going to another country. They're looking at the cost of power, they’re looking at the supply chain. They're looking at all of these different issues. But energy for them is incredibly important.  

Mary Carpenter Senator, you've got a lot going on. Tell us what success looks like to you in five or ten years from now when it comes to nuclear, whether it's new builds or workforce milestones or energy exports, what's your vision?  

Senator Sue Rezin Well, several things. First of all, I think it's incredibly important to start the workforce even younger than what we have. We have created our internship in the high school on up. We need to go back and start educating our elementary schools as to what's available for them in the nuclear industry. It is important for the country to make sure that we are not reliant on other countries, so, build out nuclear here, make sure that we have the component and the supply chain to build out nuclear here as well. And in terms of building nuclear, I would love to see nuclear built in the state of Illinois right on the sites of the nuclear power plants that we currently have for twofold. We have the workforce here, but we also have the communities that embrace nuclear, and you can build the infrastructure of the transmission from the nuclear plants to move the power all the way to the East Coast is already here. So, it's a win-win for everyone. Obviously, the tax base, the economy locally would win us well. But let's not make this more complicated than what it is. There's a huge demand that we need to figure out, how are we going to supply that demand in a very short amount of time. We have the workforce, we have the nuclear that's here, we have the sites where you can continue to build on. Either large-scale reactors or build the SMRs on site by the nuclear reactors and then put that power on the grid that's already here. That makes the most sense.  

Jordan Houghton Well, I'm sold. I mean, I buy it because I am an Illinois native, but I'm sold! Senator, you've made a great case. And it's really just incredible to hear all of the programs you already have going. I mean, we've talked about workforce on this podcast with many different guests, and people are talking about the challenges with filling out the next generation workforce. And you have such a great case story there already. We need you to, like, go totally national with it, take it everywhere. 

Senator Sue Rezin  Yeah. Well, we'd love to. And like I say, the best idea is one that's borrowed. I'm working with somebody who reached out to us from Tennessee, they have a nuclear ecosystem, too, in the Tennessee area, and they've built up their workforce. Hey, I can learn from them. Let's bring it here, because the next generation is where it's at. But more importantly, though, that generation that's coming up, their parents, their grandparents—oftentimes their grandparents have built the nuclear power plants and they can tell you stories about building the plants. So, you know that families usually, ultimately live by each other. It makes sense for our workforce in the area, and we'll continue to do that. I hope that other people understand it's never too early to start. Don't wait until the company is looking to come there. I've sat in many conversations where people said, we can do this for our work force or if you come, we're going to do this. I feel you're too late. You need to start with your workforce now. I'll give you one example. We were sitting with a Fortune 500 company that was looking to build out a plant. And part of the discussion around the table, very high-level discussion, was about the workforce and that we already have currently the workforce here and we're starting our workforce education as early as high school. They appreciate that and they understand too that's what they're looking for is, do people understand and accept this industry that we're building in. So, I say we have it here. Come to Illinois, come to the 38th district, we will embrace you.  

Jordan Houghton Fantastic. Okay, last question for you—we're asking all of our guests this season—is there a book that you're reading or have recently finished that you would recommend to our listeners? It does not have to be on topic. It can be anything, even if it's just a great novel.  

Senator Sue Rezin Yes. Well, thank you. It's funny you say that because I am reading, so I just got back from about a week off here after session, and I'm reading the book, Mel Robbins, Let Them. So why is this important? I work in politics and there is a lot of challenges when you're dealing in politics, in anxiety, in frustration, and the politics of trying to pass good legislation that makes, you know, good sense. So, I've been reading this book and I thought, you know what, I need to be very much more intentional about what I'm doing, what I am allowing into my life, and what challenges or fights I decide to fight. I'm only looking at a value-add situation right now and if it helps my district, if it makes me happy, if it's a project I want to work on, I'm working on it. If it's a fight or a battle where it doesn't make sense other than create a tremendous amount of anxiety, if you're not happy with me for a decision I've made, I'll let them. I feel much better.  

Jordan Houghton I've heard so much about this book!  

Mary Carpenter Me, too! I can't believe I haven't read it. This is such a good one to add to our list. I'm really glad that you mentioned that one. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, this was so interesting. And excellent book recommendation, I need to read it this summer. Thank you so much, Senator.  

Senator Sue Rezin Great to talk to you. Thanks for having me.  

Jordan Houghton Very excited by the book recommendation today, really good one to add to the list. Have heard so much about this book, have not gotten to it yet. But just an exciting conversation to talk about all of what's going on in Illinois. But also, it feels important to highlight there is a lot of momentum in states around the country.  

Mary Carpenter Yeah, states all across the country are competing for nuclear, figuring out ways that they can bring nuclear to their states. As we talked about in this episode, it's such a good job creator, so good for the local economies, and states are trying to bring those benefits to them.  

Jordan Houghton Yeah, and I would say wherever you're listening from, if you're interested in what's going on in your state, reach out to your state Senators, your state Reps, and you can find out what bills are active, what's going on and how you can get involved if you want to bring more nuclear to where you live.  

Mary Carpenter Yeah, because state policies are just as important as federal policies. So, make sure you're following along.  

Jordan Houghton All right, we have more episodes coming soon. Make sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And we'll see you soon.  

Mary Carpenter Bye, Fissionaries.